April 24, 2009 2:44 PM

Got it! You put me on the right track Wisedude:

The letters F O U and R are between horns of different hydra heads.

Wisedude, re: the keynumber presented in viii:

Well, O is the 15th letter of the alphabet. Maybe 15?

If you go back to part VI and click on the cage it will give you the number of the monkeys that have tails and the ones that don't.

April 25, 2009 3:45 PM

Can't wait till chapter ten. Then we get to see what all those boards with crystals were about.

Currently the complete parts of the table of solutions are:

ii: 4, counterclockwise, WOLF
viii: PLANETARIUM, counterclockwise, 6
x: ENEMY, clockwise, 30

From a previous assumption it was stated to find the words in each chapter and count the numbers in the direction. However the clue words don't appear in the chapters. The closest to WOLF is MOON and PLANETARIUM is HEAVENS. The thing is I'm not sure whether I want to take a stab at the final solution is yet based on these words and the likeliness alone

April 25, 2009 5:20 PM

Ray9na:

I have to agree with Alkalannar. It seems that the keynumber is FOUR, as the hydra spells out.

Also, it seems like:

Some numbers are starting to get pairs/doubles...and at least for the two 4's I have, the either-or orb is spinning in opposite directions. Maybe that has something to do with the Major Puzzle solution?

Keyword:

I'm also thinking it's eclipse, but that's not at all close to 'obscure'...is there another term related to the eclipse that's closer to that? 'Umbra', 'Penumbra', 'Corona', etc.?

Either-Or:

There are six possible arrangements on the monkeys--however, one arrangement (the first two have tailless monkeys) means that the third astronomer would know what monkey he has on his back (which would be a tailed monkey). The only combinations that allow the second astronomer to figure out what monkey is on his back are where the first has a tailless monkey, and the second has a tailed one. So the monkey has a tail.

I think my reasoning's correct...*shrugs* And looking over the other comments, I think I just agreed with Alkalannar on the monkeys. XD

April 25, 2009 8:02 PM

@Michelle S.

No eclipse is close to obscure. The moon is "obscuring" the sun, also known as an eclipse. If they wanted to see the Umbra/Penumbra/Corona they'd be looking away from the sun.

Keynumber:

Agree with Wisedude about the solution. It makes sense and fit into the description of the puzzle nicely.

Keyword:

Again, agree with the answer is eclipse. Wisedude's reasoning is correct, IMHO.

Either-or key:

Yeah, no doubt the second astronomer has a tailed monkey. The first has no tail, leaving the third as unknown.

I think it's still too premature to figure out anything yet, since the table still has a lot of gaps to be filled. I think it will start making sense starting from the tenth week, when the table has only 6+ (including the leg count puzzle) places left to be filled.

April 26, 2009 9:09 PM

@Wisedude: Yeah, true. ^^
@Ang:

Of course it's too early to say anything about the major puzzle. XD But everyone's still going to speculate, so...yeah.

I love the community-solving going on here. ^^

Well trying to playing with the Major Solution, I found out some interesting facts...

1. Not only you have to find the right spheres, the order which you enter the solution also matters. For example, putting sphere101 UNDER first and 2sphere206 MOON second is different than the latter first and former second. That also means there's no way we can key in the solution now.

2. You can enter more than one sphere from the same part into Major Solution. In fact, you can enter the same sphere into the solution as many times as you want.

3. The Major Solution has no space, so the answer itself is a long batch of letters.

So here's my theory. The Table of Solution, once completed, will tell us not only where is the correct spheres, it will also provided us means to arrange it. But how we suppose to apply the Minor Solutions is still a mystery to me.

Hey, after week 4, I've really wanted to create a copy of the game that is depicted in the top right hand corner. Does anyone have any ideas where I can find glass game pieces like those depicted in this game?

Thanks =)

May 1, 2009 11:50 AM

Week 9 is off to a great start!

Either/or (in the potions at the lower left):

There is *not* more red in one than green in the other. There is an equal amount. instead.

Keynumber (lighthouse):

E, I, S, and H all have only short flashes (., .., ..., and .... respectively). The R is the only letter with any long flashes, and it only has 1: .-. is the character.

Keyword (weathervane):

If we look for names that are missing from the array, the missing letters are Q, R, U, X, Y, and Z. However, the names also alternate male and female...except when we go from Patty to Sandy. That implies a male name starting with R is missing. The one that first comes to mind is 'Robert', but that's just a guess. Any more thoughts?

Michelle S --

Yeah, I see that now. That was from my first pass at it.

May 1, 2009 4:12 PM

Re: ix Keyword

The names given are all hurricane names for a particular season. They repeat on a fairly regular basis; this set will come around again next in 2012. The missing name is Rafael.

May 1, 2009 4:59 PM

Re: Re: ix Keyword:

@David B: Good job! Didn't think to google the name sequence. At least I pegged the letter and gender of the name.

Either-or key in part ix:

I don't agree with Alkalannar. Here's the reason. (Warning: algebra ahead)

Let's say flask 1 has X volume of red liquid, well flask 2 has Y volume of green liquid. Let's say the spoon take 0.1X of red liquid into flask 2. Flask 1 now has 0.9X of red liquid, while flask 2 now has 0.1X+Y of mixed liquid.

Now, you take 0.1*(0.1X+Y) liquid from flask 2 back into flask 1. Now the total amount of liquid in flask 1 will be 0.91X+0.1Y, while flask 2 has 0.09X+0.9Y of liquid. Clearly, flask 1 has more red liquid (0.91X) compared to flask 2's green liquid (0.9Y). Hence, there is more red in one bottle than green in the other.

I only disagree with either-or key; I found the solutions for the other two puzzles in part ix reasonable.

BTW, another stab on the oh-it's-getting-nearer-and-nearer-to-the-dateline Major Puzzle.

I believe I get the correct sphere for part IV. I mean, if it's keynumber is 1, and the keyword is NUMBER, and the first sphere is happpen to be ONE, it's too obvious which one is the right sphere.

Now, if I could make sense of how the either-or keys are applied into the Major Puzzle... (And don't forget that arrangement of the Major Solution is important, too!)

May 3, 2009 5:51 AM

Ang, I hasten to disagree:

Sadly, it's too early in the morning for me to attempt algebra, so it's all a bit of a mess - sorry!

We're told that the two flasks hold an identical amount of liquid, so the easiest thing to do is stick some numbers in. Prentend that they both hold 25 units and that the spoon takes 5 units. After taking 5 red from its flask and depositing it in the green, we have 20 red in the first flask and 25(g) + 5(r) in the second. The second flask, therefore, contains red and green in the ratio 5:25, or 1:5. The five units we'll remove from here in a moment will be in the exact same ratio, and to find out how much of each we'll be taking, we'll divide 1 & 5 by 6 (the current total of the ratio) and times it by 5 (the total we want). We get a ratio of 5/6(r):25/6(g). Now, the first flask currently holds 120/6(r), so adding the spoon to it will get you 125/6(r) + 25/6(g). The second flask, previously 150/6(g) + 30/6(r), is now 125/6(g) and 25/6(r). This solution shows that there isn't more red in one than green in the other and since all the initial values you put in must come to the same answer (otherwise there wouldn't be much of a question, would there? They wouldn't ask a question that could have two different answers...), then I say that Alkalannar was correct earlier.

@Sruixan

Good explanation! I forget to take into account the ratio between the red and green liquids in the spoon (and hence the true amount of liquid in the spoon) when transferring from the second flask back to the first one in the algebra equation. Again, thanks for the explanation! :)

May 3, 2009 6:44 AM

orrery

I play this game together with a friend of mine. Only today we reached installment 11. And a few days ago I found this site. So far we seem to be doing good, because all the answers we have match the ones I find here, but one: the orrery!

This first spoiler is given by wisedude, the second one is my comment on it.

So basically this puzzle is all about eliminating everything unessential. Basically, if you strip away every thing but the most important stuff you have three different circles all connected by one track. Each of those are connected to a central ball by one track, except one of them which is connected by two tracks.

I tried leaving out all the unessential and indeed you can end up with 3 circles. One with the nine planets, one for the 3 spheres that represent the moon (past, present and future) and a 3rd one for the earth, sun and present sphere of the moon.
If it were just these 3 circles it would easy. But what is essential (imo) and left out in solution are the 2 tracks that leave from the sun to the past and future spheres of the moon. When you keep these in, they will give you the headache, because now you will always be left with one track you cannot pass without taking another one for the second time.
So, in my opinion, it is impossible. For the ones who are convinced it can be done, please comment on this.

@Uncle Arthur

I believe I have posted the solution before. I will repost it here for easier access.

"Well, the answer is that it can pass through every path once to form the longest way. The trick is that you know about the Eulerian Path or heard about the seven bridges problem before. :)

Taken all information about the orrery, you would found out that all but two spheres (Future Moon and Past Moon, to be exact) has even numbers of paths connected to each of them. This fulfills the requirement to form an Eulerian Path."

IMHO Wisedude's way is much more complicated and didn't really satisfy me as much as my own explanation, which makes more sense.

May 3, 2009 9:54 AM

orrery

Thanks, that made it clear, but it still took a while to figure out how to do it with a pen. Meeting the requirements was not enough to understand how it worked. One of the mistakes I probably made was starting at the wrong point. That does seem to make a difference. Nonetheless, you are right, it can be done!! Thanks for your help!

May 4, 2009 10:39 AM

Sorry

Sorry 'bout confusing people with my answer to the orrey. It's because I didn't know of any of that so I got out a piece of paper, mapped it all out and then did it. It's rather hard to put a picture into words, no?

May 4, 2009 2:09 PM

I love the discussion about the orrery.

These are well known results from graph theory. The necessary and sufficient condition to go along all edges exactly once and end up where you started is that the graph is connected (you can reach any vertex from any other vertex) and all vertices have an even number of edges. The necessary and sufficient condition to go along all the edges exactly once and not end up where you started is that the graph is connected and all the vertices have an even number of edges, except for the starting and ending vertices. In this case all the planets, the sun, and the present moon all have an even number of tracks going into them, and the past and future moon both have an odd number. Therefore, the second condition is met, and we can get paths going from future to past or past to future.

*sigh* I can't wait to start my master's program next month. I'll be setting up a walkthrough once we get all the way through. Unless people think that would take the fun out of going through all the comments?

May 4, 2009 7:26 PM

Alkalannar

Go for it! I hate trawling through comments.

Ang

Normally I'd hasten to disagree about the major solution but...I think you're right. If we follow the established convention(either-or is counter clockwise) and we count 1 away from the 12 o'clock position we land on the Number orb. Wow.

@Alkalannar: Seconded. Going through those comments is no fun, especially for newcomers. :)

@Wisedude:

Don't bet on it yet. Like I say, I'm still clueless of how the Table of Solution fits into the Major Solution, especially how we find out the arrangement of the spheres. In fact, it's only at part iv that the counting method worked, the rest seems don't fit at all. Makes me wish that part x could come sooner/time would flows faster... :p

May 5, 2009 8:01 AM

Ok. I have the walkthrough completed so far. Should I wait for the game to be complete, or do you want to see it in all its nested-spoiler-tag glory so far?

May 5, 2009 10:38 AM

I would wait until the game is finished. If you put it up a part at a time, then there will be like, three differnet walkthroughs at the top of the page. If you wait till part XII then there will only be 1 walkthrough.

@Alkalannar: I think you should post a complete version of the walkthrough, with 36 minor puzzles' solutions together with the major solution. Do include the reasoning, so it's make clear of how we get the answers.

May 5, 2009 10:56 AM

I am including reasoning or google-fu or wiki-fu as appropriate.

If I had contact information, I would be glad to send what I have so far to people so that they can comment on what else is needed.

May 5, 2009 11:30 PM
May 6, 2009 12:56 AM

@Twilight

While those rules would seem to drastically change the answer, my understanding of the question is, how many dashes is the sea horse flashing. Not what is the equivilant amount of dashes. As someone who has used morse code, I can honestly say you just wait a small sec before the next letter.

May 6, 2009 8:59 AM

The actual text is:

"The number of long flashes in the seahorse's message." And there is only 1 in the single R.

May 6, 2009 4:49 PM

A sample of logic from the walkthrough for week 9 Either/Or:

Let the volume in each bottle be X.

Let the amount of red in the primarily red bottle be R1 and the amount of red in the primarily green bottle be R2. Similarly, let the amount of green in green be G1 and the amount of green in red be G2.

Now R1 + R2 must equal X (as the red bottle has X red liquid in it to begin with). G1 + G2 must also equal X. Now after the mixing, R1 + G2 must equal X (a spoonful of liquid was removed from red, then one was added back), as must G1 + R2 (spoonful added, then removed).

So R1 + R2 = R1 + G2 and R1 + R2 = G1 + R2. Or R2 = G2 and R1 = G1. So the amount of red in one bottle equals the amount of green in the other bottle.

Therefore, there is not more red in bottle than green in the other.

What do you think? Is it clear?

May 8, 2009 11:09 AM

More about the weathervane puzzle in week 9: There is a huge clue when the text says

"If only he could free himself from the bonds of ironmongery, he could leave his rooftop perch and pay a visit to the mathemagician's study, where there is a map of the time and place to which these names belong." In the mathemagician's study is

a map of ocean wave patterns labeled "North Atlantic 2000 AD" - it was crystal clear to me at that point that the list of names were the assigned hurricane names for that season, easily found on Wikipedia

May 8, 2009 11:18 AM

Keyword (Fox's Riddle):

"In modern times, to counter risks/I masquerade as asterisks." This has to be a PASSWORD.

Keynumber (Dominoes):

There are 8 of each number from 0 to 6. The sum of 1 to 6 is 21. 8 * 21 = 168.

Either/Or (The Game of Cards):

I don't think either can win without cheating. There are initially 0 Face Up. Each turn, either 2 are turned face up, 2 are turned face down, or 1 face up and 1 face down. So the number of face-up cards changes by either 2 or 0 each time. So the number of face-up cards will always be a multiple of two (without cheating). Specifically, there will never be 5 face-up cards.

May 8, 2009 11:19 AM

Thank you muddgirl! I will put that in the walkthrough.

May 8, 2009 4:50 PM

On the week 10 either-or, I agree with alkalannar

It takes an odd number of flips for each card to be turned face up (1, 3, 5, 7, etc. flips will result in a face-up card, while 2, 4, etc. flips will result in a face-down card). To turn 5 cards face-up, an odd number of total flips is still required (as an odd number times and odd number is an odd number). However, if you have to flip two cards at a time, there is no way to get an odd number of total flips - an even number times any number is an even number.

I think this was one of the first keywords I was able to get... But I love how the intro worked into the solution :P

You know, after all this waiting for part x, realising that the sliders and the glass pieces are not part of the current minor puzzles intrigue me. They could be clues for either the future 6 minor puzzles, or they're part of the *gasp* major puzzle. That, and those weird things like the dices and buoys in part vii...

Geez, I guess I have to wait for the part xi for more clues about the major puzzle...

BTW, I do agree with all solutions of the minor puzzles this week. :)

May 10, 2009 3:49 PM

@Ang: Or they could be....

Gimmicks to make sure that we keep coming back until week 10 to find out what they all are.

That sort of cynicism doesn't ring true, though, so I hope that they are of some use.

And is anyone from JiG staff still watching these comments?

We are everywhere. :)

There are several of us that watch and read every comment posted.

I have been very pleased with the activity on this thread as you work through each week of the game. Is there something in particular you need from us?

May 10, 2009 11:25 PM

Hey, Jay!

Just that when the walkthrough gets posted in the comments it will be noted. Maybe re-feature this once everything is set up? Maybe after we get into week 13? Say around June 1?

Alkalannar, enjoying the site in general, and this game in particular!

ok, i'm a bit behind, still on ix, but I'd like to comment on the either-or

The red and green bottles have exactly the same volume of liquid, so lets call it "x" and set x=100cc. Remove "y" volume from R (let's call y 10cc) and transfer to G; now G has x+y vol (or 110cc), and R has x-y (or 90cc). Mix the G bottle well. The amount of R in the G bottle = y/x+y, or 10/110. Thus the proportion of R in the G bottle is 10/110, or 1/11. THEN remove volume "y" (10cc) from G bottle to R bottle. The volume y removed from G is only a small part R (1/11 or 0.909cc to be precise). So now R contains 100cc, of which 90 +0.909cc is R, and 9.09cc is G. The G bottle contains the remaining 9.09cc R, plus 90.909ccG. SO there is not more red in one bottle than green in another.

May 10, 2009 11:59 PM

@Zoz: Yes, exactly. Would you also look at the comment 2 above the Week X answers and let me know if the logic there is clear?

@Alkalannar

Yeah, don't believe they will use such underhanded tactics. :)

BTW, I have calculated the glass pieces' value and found out the hidden side of the dices, for those who're interested.

Glass pieces:
top (Part iv)- 4 20 15
16 9 12
0 4 12

middle (Part vii)- 15 15 20
4 25 9
15 20 12

lower (Part ix)- 12 25 9
15 12 16
0 9 25

Dice (from top to bottom): 6, 4, 3, 2, 5, 2, 5, 3, 4

@Alkalannar, I do think the logic is correct. However, since this is

essentially a dilution problem, there are multiple ways to solve it. As with so many math problems, what is clear to one person may not be to another until it is presented in a different, but still accurate, manner. I just presented the solution in a way that was clearest to me. More than one presentation is a good thing, I think!

for part x either-or: there must be some classic conundrum like this posted on the web somewhere, since so many of the previous problems came from

things like the borromean rings or dovetail box.

Any ideas???

@zoz: I don't think so. Not all of the puzzles are based on classic examples, and I believe this one is no exception. :)

May 11, 2009 1:42 PM

I'm a week behind most people, so I'll get the final solution after most of you. Haven't worked out the girl's name yet either. some thoughts:

I think the animals "on business" in each episode have something to do with the final solution...

vii states that the beginning (ie: first half) of the fnal solution is in the second half of planetarium and the end is in the first half

the keymasters in ix state "the key thing is to work out a system". of course, what system is still up in the air...

what does the "cardinal clue" in vii have to do with the puzzles?

the prediction/calculation about the line and the guardian in the circular room has yet to be... seems like it will occur in the planetarium.

looking forward to the next few weeks' puzzles :)

May 11, 2009 3:07 PM

The girl's name is never mentioned in the game. In fact, coming up with a name for the girl was the tiebreaker with the initial contest back in 1999. So it's of no practical use now, but try to come up with something appropriate anyway. Always fun.

May 12, 2009 12:57 AM

Just a question people, what did you guys name the girl?

I said her name was "Arlene". Thought it was fitting.

Me? I just choose a name from the competition's page, and be done with it. You may call it cheating, I call it time-saving. :P

May 12, 2009 10:05 AM

I chose Clio, the muse of history, for full-blown irony.

Questions that I hope are answered soon:

The ghost from the future will appear next week! (Part 11) What will the ghost do?

The girl is coming to the end of her foresight. Will she gain a normal memory then, I wonder?

Just what is the mathemagician's game? He knows a lot more than he lets on, probably because he's calculated so much. (And violated many of the Laws of Time we see back in Part 5.)

May 12, 2009 10:32 AM

NinjaRaven:

I believe the whole Locksmiths story is a clue to the nature of the Major Puzzle. Note that it's stated that the Major Puzzle is never officially presented and that one has to figure not only the answer, but what the question is (engaging in DeepThought might be required).

Well, the 'key'numbers/words are part of a system involving counting around a circle, starting from the right place, keeping in mind the correct direction (either right, or left). So yes, I think we should have a pretty good idea by now what the Major Puzzles will be.

@The Big Unknown:

Good point! That's the clue to the major puzzle! Note the sentence 'The key thing, they announced, is to work out a system.', and we have keys in the ToS. So the solution to the major puzzle is to work out a system that applies to all the instalments/parts.

Now all we have to do is to find a correct system that applies to all parts, which sadly I still unable to figure out. Anyone who has the ideas please feel free to comment/post.

Re: the girl's name: I like "lighter", because she lights the darkness that is the future and, most importantly, because it's an anagram of "the girl". Ok, not such a pretty name, but still...

May 13, 2009 1:19 PM

Since I signed up for Planetarium a few days after it was featured here, I am unfortunately lagging behind most of you. Therefore I arrive too late to contribute to the current (from your perspective) puzzles. However, here are some speculations which may be of interest:

(I am tagging these as spoilers, since while they do not disclose any concrete solution, if any of these are useful you might wish to have arrived to them by yourself)

Major Puzzle speculation:

The Planetarium and its Anteroom apparently star in the two last segments, along with the Fox and Wolf. Now, note the interface of the game. It seems to be enclosed in the gears of the Planetarium. I'm guessing the Major Puzzle consists of aligning the Planetarium correctly by choosing the correct spheres. I also had the same hypothesis as others about how the Minor Puzzles solutions come into play for that - select a sphere according to Keyword, direction according to Either/Or and numbers of steps according to Keynumber. The Locksmiths story seems to support this idea. However, maybe it's all one big Red Herring.

Rambling speculation:

I wonder about the nature of the relationship between The Girl and the Mathemagician. Are these two separate entities? What kind of change will they experience when they pass through the line?
I think a foreshadowing clue came with description of the Owl, where it noted its hoot sounds the same reversed (by the way, is this true?), a sonic palindrome. Then an innocent question: could it be an Owl traveling backwards in time? What if the girl doesn't have foresight per se, but is actually traveling backwards in time and remembering? Will the passing of the line having something to do with this?

One thing to notice about the Cardinal Clue: the right one has two triangles pointing upwards, whereas in the left the bottom points down while the top points up. Also the reversed colours. Interesting.

@Alkalannar: I like the suggestion of 'Clio'. My own choice currently is

Ada. It is a palindromic name, which may prove appropriate considering my speculations above (indeed, the property fits Planetarium regardless). Also, it evokes one of my favorite authors - Nabokov, as well as Ada Lovelace, thus representing a blend of Literature and Mathematics (with strong emphasis on visual aesthetics).

@The Big Unknown (ramblings about Major Puzzle):

I don't agree with the way Major Puzzle works, since Wisedude, a regular contributer here, also posted a very similiar way before in page 1, which is rebutted by ThemePark, who had played it a few times before.

Also, how do Keywords determine where to start? Some, like in part iv, it's easy: keyword is NUMBER, and it happens that ONE is one of the sphere. Others, like in part vi, where keyword is RAFAEL, it's impossible to relate it with the spheres. Heck, I don't even know if there's anything that are related with RAFAEL, except perhaps big winds and angels.

Also, some of the keynumbers have a huge numbers, it seems counting them is very impractical. Take part vi, which keynumber is 168. While there's always an easier way to do the counting, it seems far too... ridiculous if it's just involve counting them.

However, I do have an idea that may help to solve the Major Puzzle. If anyone pays attention to the stories so far, there's almost always has an animal that has a duty to be done or already done in every parts, just like the owl in part ii or weasel in part i. Since we still yet to see any roles they may play, they may in fact the clues to the Major Puzzle.

Also curious is the fact that the value of pi is given in part i, and that the sliders that both fox and wolf wear are only different in the central left and central right peices, and the crystal pieces can be translated into number grids (remember, number plays important role in Planetarium)...

PS: Part v also includes a very interesting line, here's the sentence:

"If you want to really unlock a puzzle, for example, you're more likely to find what you're looking for by going to the experts."

Relate it to the keys story in part x, and the fact that they italic the word 'unlock', it seems that it could be also clues to Major Puzzle.

Geez, that Major Puzzle sure get me paranoid... :( I wonder if ThemePark is still here, and may provide tips to solve it.

May 14, 2009 10:44 AM

I, more or less, agree with Ang's statements about the major puzzle. I do disagree with your assesment about using number for the major puzzle, and use the for counting, as it would be a simple matter of division to figure out how many were superflous.

On the value of pi: I don't really think that's curious, as we've already done a puzzle with pi as a major factor (remember the City of Round puzzle back in part five?).

On the sliders of the fox, and the wolf: I honestly thought that this would be a question along the lines of "Could you move the fox's slider so that it showed the same characters as the wolfs?" (Answer: No, it's called the "Fifteen puzzle" there's an article on Wikipedia, blah blah blah.

On the crystal grids: I'm just expecting one of the two future Either or's to be "Who won, fox, or wolf?"

On the clues to the Major Puzzle in episode seven (The school of red herrings): I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those are, red herrings. Not true. The way it's formated,

Some red herrings:

Makes me start to take it literally and think that those clues, aren't clues, just red herrings.

On the locksmiths: Yes, we figured it out. Not something to be paranoid about anymore.

And that's my two cents

@Wisedude:

Yeah, that's the problem of the whole 'keynumber are used to count spheres' idea. Since it's a circle, and simple division would reduce the numbers to manageable forms, why use a way bigger number instead? If 4 could do the job, why times it with 42 and use that larger number instead? It's far too cheap a trick to be used in the elegant puzzles that are presented in Planetarium so far.

Other than that, I think we just be patient and wait for the last two instalments for more ideas about the Major Puzzle. After all, to use the word of Jess, 'it took me until the very last chapter to put it all together'

May 15, 2009 11:20 AM

Yay! Part 11!

Keyword (iguana, then 'animal kingdom')

Ok...I'm looking for the mouse, and now we get to go and look for another animal overlooked somewhere earlier. Great.

Keynumber (number grid on upper right)

Easy: product of the cells of the grids in the first week. 14 * 9 = 126

Either/Or (glass pieces under the number grid)

It looks as though the fox (odds) won: top-upper-right, middle-middle-right, bottom-lower-right make a diagonal with three odds.

And....

The girl is granted memory! But the mathemagician now goes backwards through time. He's the stranger behind the crates!

May 15, 2009 11:43 AM

There is also a chain of animals that stretches from 12 to 1.

12: Unknown
11: Iguana
09: Opossum
08: Vulture
07: Seahorse
06: Yak
05: Ostrich
04: Unicorn
03: Newt
02: Owl
01: Weasel

They must have delivered the letter to the girl!

May 15, 2009 11:45 AM

Ummm....7 should be the Eel, not the Seahorse. (Why I say that should be obvious.)

May 15, 2009 11:59 AM

to Alkalannar: about the overlooked animal

the other overlooked animal is in part 2!

May 15, 2009 12:31 PM

I see that. But I don't see the animal itself!

May 15, 2009 1:33 PM

The animal(s):

I think I see an armadillo? Its head is at the very bottom of the milestone, with its eye directly below the "1". Its shell is directly below it and to the right, looking like a turtle shell.

If you're still looking for the mouse, its tail is the space in between the agent's head and the rest of his body. Its head is to the right of the mathemagician's hat.

May 15, 2009 2:28 PM

the overlooked animal

no it is not an armadillo, but you are close to the place where to find it.
A hint: the animal lies upside down!

For myself, I have till sunday morning to solve one more riddle in part 12 and the major puzzle. And I am close to desperation, because I really have no idea where to start. My friend an I, we had tons of ideas about how to use all solutions, but it never comes to anything that makes real sense.
Is there anyone who has played the game before, who can give me a hint.

May 15, 2009 2:30 PM

I think I have it:

I think there is a tortoise in the briars, shell just beneath the milestone, head a ways beneath the ghost's foot.

Oh, and it's upside down.

And tortoise rather than turtle because tortoise shares o, s, and e with mouse.

May 15, 2009 3:11 PM

the overlooked animal

you found it indeed!

May 15, 2009 8:39 PM

Just wanna say something

The mouse in chapter XI is to the right of the head of the Mathemagician and under the head of the Agent of Time. Not sure if this is useful, but it's interesting.

REVELATION!

I think that the Major Solution is the love letter that was sent to the Girl. Why says you? Because in the FAQ for Planetarium one of the questions is "Q: Can you ever find out what the love letter says? A: Yes, but you will never be told directly". And I bet in the next chapter, we'll get to meet her secret admirer!

May 15, 2009 8:45 PM

More!

Sorry for double posting, anyways. I just figured out that each animal is meating the one before. And none the less, they're all traveling BACKWARDS IN TIME! The Iguana meets the ladybug, ladybug to possum, possum to vulture, vulture to eel, eel to yak, yak to ostritch, ostritch to unicorn, unicorn to newt, newt to owl, owl to weasel, and the weasel knows what to do. Probably a major part of the major solution!

May 15, 2009 10:11 PM

@Wisedude:

They're delivering the letter to the girl!

Look at the first letter in each name: I LOVE YOU NOW.

I thought maybe each animal was associated somehow with a particular sphere (maybe the starting sphere), but couldn't get it to work.

@Uncle Arthur: I know as least two who had played the game before: Jess and Themepark, who posted earlier in this thread. I don't know if they're still watching this thread, thought...

But here's some ideas to help you guys solves the Major Puzzle.

1. List down every spheres that appeared in each parts. I use notepad for this purpose.
2. Notice anything that are strange. Strange as in any italic words, unused elements, given numbers (Yeah, that pi thing still bothers me. Why would they give us the pi value if we're no going to use it?), etc.
3. Compare spheres with the ToS, and see if there's any connections between them.

I think Wisedude may be in the right direction about the Major Puzzle, thought.

At the meantime, I will wait for tomorrow for my part xi to appear, and continue to work out those minor and major puzzles from that point on.

May 16, 2009 6:37 AM

@Ang:

I have considered this all, and many more. I really think I am close to a solution, but I am overlooking something to understand the system, needed to the final solution. There has to be a connection between the keywords, keynumbers, either/or keys and spheres. So every installment gives you a combination of 4 items. I think!

@Uncle Arthur: Well, sorry if I can't really help you. I also stuck at how the Major Puzzle works, too. But then, I don't have all the instalments yet, so lack of info may stop me from getting anywhere.

BTW, a personal request to you. Can you not give us the answers of the Major Puzzle and the way to do it after you reach week 13? You may give us hints, but I personally prefer if you remain total silence with the subject. After all, half the fun of puzzle games is not in the result, but in the process. Alkalannar and Wisedude, what do you guys think about my suggestion? Do you agree with this?

May 16, 2009 11:05 AM

@ Ang,

Don't worry, I won't give any answers, wouldn't want that myself if I were in your place.
If you want I could give a hint, but no more than that. That would take away the fun I guess.
Although I find it rather frustrating that I will not be able to solve the major puzzle

Good luck!!

I will keep a watch on the messages here!

May 16, 2009 12:36 PM

I think we might end up seeing the Mathemagician in part XII. Just as the second hands must pass themselves at six, they will also have to pass themselves at twelve

Got my part xi today. I able to get 2 of 3 minor puzzles correct, and only need helps for the keyword.

Major Puzzle ramblings:

And still heading no where with Major Puzzle. Pretty sure it got nothing to do with counting the sphere, and it must involve some circular motions (or the either-or keys won't make sense). Just hope that when part xii come, I (or someone here) have figured out how the Major Puzzle works.

May 17, 2009 8:51 AM

Just something on the love letter:

"This letter is central to Planetarium, although it is not in itself one of the four others which play a major role." Are we talking letters in terms of messages, or letters in terms of actual letters of the alphabet?

@Sruixan:

Well, I'm pretty certain that it means the love letter, not any alphabets. :)

Also, something interesting in part iii:

Anyone still remember the distill? Who wants to figure out what's the missing fuel to created a device that make chess openings? (Yeah, I'm also curious why they italic the sentence, too...) May have something to do with letter 'b', since all the ingredients begins with letter 'b'.

May 17, 2009 10:25 AM

Ang, I was merely curious as to what the four others it speaks of are...

May 17, 2009 10:28 AM

Oh, actually, Ang, that's a point and a half...

The chess malark is one of the Mathemagican's two inventions, the other being in part xii. How curious...

@Sruixan:

Well, I have no idea. Could be anything. My own guesses is that the other 4 are:

1. Keynumber
2. Either-or Key
3. Keyword
4. Spheres

... Which still din't help in solving the Major Puzzle. Sigh.

May 17, 2009 11:03 AM

Those aren't really letters though, are they? AFAIK, there are no other messages in letter form throughout the Planetarium, so perhaps we are thinking of letters of the alphabet here. But ho hum. 'till next week then - I'll have the whole half term to speculate as to the major puzzle, which is a perfect bit of coincidental timing...

And one other thing - the mathemagican's other great invention is, in part v, revealed to be kept in the planetarium. I wonder quite what the final scene of this adventure shall entail, then...

May 17, 2009 11:09 AM

Yet more major puzzle speculation:

In part x, the harbourmaster is revealed to be able to measure the wind direction to within one-sixteenth of a full circle. Curiously, the rings around each part of the story happen to be divided into sixteen parts...

@Sruixan:

Ah, I see where you're heading. Well I interpret the sentence as 4 other objects, you interpret it as 4 other letters. I see, it's a very interesting take on the sentence. :)

If this is the case, then I have no clue at all. :(

@Sruixan (Major Puzzle):

Good eye! I'm actually trying to figure out why the circle is divided into 16 sectors. You put me on the right track! :)

May 17, 2009 1:39 PM

Re: xi either/or:

Is there a better picture of the Game of Glass Pieces somewhere? I'm not seeing a winning combination in the chapter 10 pic.

@Brandon (Hint):

Of course there are better pictures shattered around Planetarium. The thing is you looked at the wrong place (aka not at part x). Check up the upper right corner in every parts of Planetarium, and you would find what you want. :)

I have an odd suspicion

that the "mysterious stranger" in xii IS the mathmagician.

1. the machine in iii is never stated, what if it is a de-aging machine?

2. he says in xi that the girl will now be "in good hands" already knowing who it is.

3. The mathmagician bought the planetarium in his younger days, what if the young man is him back when he bought it, having gone through time backwards?

Curious.

May 18, 2009 1:52 AM

@Yukito

Hmm, interesting idea. This co-oberates with my theory about how we'll at least see him in xii, based on the metaphor "...and like all the second hands on his watches, he must pass himself at vi." Because we've gone through every chapter (save xii) it is logically impossible for the watch hands to pass themselves at six, and six alone.

Major Puzzle:

Well, today I continue my pondering with the Major Puzzle, and I found out something very interesting...

1. I found out that North, South, East and West are the 4 CARDINAL direction. Could this be related with the CARDINAL buoy in part vii?

2. Also, remember the circle is being divided into 16 sectors? Apparently, some of the compasses also has sixteen points. Wiki cardinal direction to see what I'm talking about.

My guesses is that by using the ToS, we can determine the direction of the spheres in each part! Now the problem is to translate the data in the ToS into meaningful direction. I will work it out later. What do you guys think?

Major Puzzle:

After doing some wiki-fu, I also found out that the top-mark of the buoys has meaning after all! The marks tell us the direction relative to the particular object. Wiki cardinal mark for more detail, but basically the CARDINAL buoy is north, while the CLUE buoy is east.

So here's my idea of how the Major Puzzle work: Each sector of the circle represents each direction in the compass. In part vii, notice the the CARDINAL buoy is pointing towards a sector. That sector is NORTH.

The keyword contains the direction of your starting sector. To answer the question Sruixan ask earlier, the other 4 important letters is...

1. N
2. S
3. E
4. W

AKA the cardinal direction! And so far, all the keywords contain at least one of the letters, and not more than 3. So take the letters from left to right, and you get the direction of your starting point!

Example: part i has keyword 'WINDOW'. Take out the W and N from left to right, and you get WNW, aka west north-west.

Now, the keynumber is how much sectors are the correct sphere away from your starting sector, while the EO key provides the direction (either clockwise or anti-clockwise), and the correct sphere is the one in or closest with the correct sector.

The only flaw in this system is what to do when the sector contains 2 spheres. Hopefully we won't meet this scenario, but if we do, I think we just take the most sensible one.

What do you guys think? Could this be the right system for the Major Puzzle?

Major Puzzle update:

Oh well, looks like I have a premature celebration. The system didn't work, but I think I'm close. The concept is correct, and perhaps I'm right with the usage of ToS, just that the buoys are throwing me off course. Perhaps those buoys are for Minor Puzzles instead. So kinda beg the question of where is the North... :(

May 18, 2009 8:43 AM

@Yukito and @Wisedude re: mathemagician.

It says when the agent of time sends him backwards that he never goes beyond 'now'. I admit that I thought the mathemagician might be the person who sent it, (and perhaps he did send the letter back in time via the animals on behalf of the solitary figure), but he seems to not be the one that the girl will be with.

Random pondering: I wonder what the record for most comments is?

@Alkalannar: Not sure the real number is, but I'm pretty sure we're not there yet. I have seen 3-page comments before.

BTW, do anyone here has a good idea of the Major Puzzle? What do you guys think of my solution?

May 18, 2009 11:24 AM

Oh and, Ang, that is bloomin' excellent! It fits absolutely perfectly with everything else, or at least it seems to. I'll take a crack at making it work later or something...

@Ang, I think you're brilliantly on track! Everything fits too perfectly to not be right. At least until you get to the

use of the key numbers. I just can't believe we'd have to count 168 sectors around to find the right sphere, as we would in pt vi. So I'll throw this out for you wiser ones to ponder. Could the key numbers refer to degrees rather than sectors? A compass has 360 degrees. It may seem odd that all the numbers are less than 180 degrees, but then for a sector farther away, the either-or could just point in the opposite direction. So a number higher than 180 wouldn't be necessary. Does this make any sense to you?
Also, I'm not convinced that North is at the spot where the Cardinal buoy is pointing. It's just too messy. Then again, if the creators wanted North to be the topmost point, why not have the Cardinal buoy point that way? I leave this to better minds than mine.
Finally, I think that more than one sphere in a given area would be no problem. Using degrees rather than sectors would help pinpoint a sphere. Anyway, who said we have to choose only one sphere?

sorry to be so wordy, but you got me excited!

May 18, 2009 4:28 PM

@Zoz

We don't have to count 168 sections round. It's rather simple. (I'm not sure if we're counting sections or orbs, so assume we're talking orbs)

We take the key number (168)

And divide it by the number of orbs (10)

The remainder (8) is all we need to count

Math is lovely!